MotoBob

My Adventures with MotoBob - an ongoing saga

revised 20030308
UPDATE 20090320
Hi all;

This is the first personal page I think I've made since the mid-nineties. At some point, I'll probably turn it into a blog, but for right now, I just wanted to get something out there before I head up to Michigan for a week for spring break. No, I am not a student, but she is. It's supposed to be a whopping 8 degrees when we get there. Yay!

Introduction

Some background is in order. Since this is a personal page, I can just spew forth with all kinds of scientific inaccuracies and ludicrous postulations, and be just like all the other stuff on the internet.
I am in my mid-forties, and right now, while I call Ruth Bell, WV home, I spend my weeks within easy commuting distance to the place where I work in the black heart of the Northern Virginia Sprawl a little ways outside of the home of our nations Capitol, DC. I stay in a little cottage on the back side of a small property adjoining a horse riding camp in Great Falls Va. I currently have 3 motor vehicles. The old ford van is still resting in a snow bank out on a farm in Loudoun County, awaiting spring. I have a kludge of a horror of a pickup truck, based purely on bits and pieces of various models of Toyota Land Cruiser, which hogs fuel enough to turn a Lincoln Navigator pilot green with envy, and I have a classic old american made '84 VW Rabbit GTI which is my so-called economy car. On a good day, going down hill with a tail-wind, it might get in the mid-30s on expensive fuel.
I work as a sysmom, a system administrator for a mid-sized company in the mid-atlantic. I ply my trade with Linux. I've been in the game of earning my keep by fussing with configurations files long enough to figure out that shink-wrapped solutions don't really save all the time that the purveyors of such claim. If you are going to put the time in to getting it to work right, might as well use free software and keep the cost-per down, as work hard at making Microsoft richer. Toss some bucks back into the software community and share what you've learned, and it all seems to work out. I don't make any claims at being a great Linux hacker, heck, I can barely write a program that prints "hello world", but I can generally get the tool to do what I need to get done.

Okay, fine. But what about Bob? Or just MotoBob?

It's my page, and I want to digress and rant. So, for your perusal;
Like some of you who went to grade school in the 60s, I thought that by now, the early 21st century, that not only would we, the race of humanity, be deep into inter-planetary space with a lot of momentum toward inter-stellar, but here on earth, we would be primarily atomic, solar and wind powered with the populations living principally split lives between the high-density zero polluting cities with no cars, and the completely rural agrarian country side with huge unspoiled and restored areas where folks would recreate to restore the serenity of their souls in manners suited toward their appetites.
(how's that for a run-on sentence Mike?)
Funny how that didn't turn out. The urban areas are a horror, the urban flight has decimated the agrarian mid-atlantic and spawned tract-mansions and townhouse plantations in an economic climate where the folks who build them can't afford to live anywhere near where the work has to be done. The entire BAMA (Boston to Atlanta Metropolitan Area) is connected not in any way that makes any remote sense, but rather with the DrachenSpur of I-95, a screaming horror. Everyone must drive, and they must drive everywhere. There is no "Rapid Transit" as such despite the hard work of many. It's all about the automobile. It's more like Rabid Transit. and the statistics bear this out. Hiway slaughter, and anarchy rules I-95, where on the open stretches, SUVs with R rated tyres (they're CHEEP!) routinely travel at speeds in excess of 90mph for extended times on low pressure. Just ask Ford and Firestone. Lumbering behemoths piloted by the clueless with cell-phones jammed to their heads, doing the-Lord-only-knows-what damage to their respective brain-stems, enter mortal combat wherein the one with the most throw-weight wins. I understand that the Ford Excursion does pretty well in battle with the VW Rabbit.
What can anyone do about it? Ulimately? Nothing. The ever-increasing consumption of fossil fuels is accomplishing both tasks of keeping the coming ice age at bay, and to assure it's eventual arrival in our lifetime. Pretty neat. Even the republicans concur.
Okay, that's just a sample rant. There is plenty more. I'm sure you have your own. But what about Bob?

MotoBob

more digression
With all these spurious so-called facts in mind, and many more besides, any discussion eventually turns toward alternatives. I for one, have always boo-hoo-ed the concept of electric vehicles, or EVs. They don't do contests with Chevy Tahoes very well, or even with any style, and can barely hold their own against a VW Rabbit. Besides, they still consume fossil fuels, (we burn coal in these parts) And there is that nasty bugaboo of resources consumed in manufacture that even the most rabid of the pro new-technology-is-better types won't touch with a 10 footer.
In the end, one of the things a lot of us have heard, and some of believe is: Human on a bicycle is one of the most efficient machines there is. Turning ag products into motive force, with CO2 and compost as waste products, which in turn fuel ag products. Of course, not much effort goes into recovering the compost, but that is for another page, another day. Those who care to look, can check out composting toilets.
But me? I'm in my mid forties, I haven't ridden in any serious way in over 10 years. The last mountain biking weekend I took back in the fall, I set up and structured for some friends so that the entire day was spent traveling more or less downhill. (email me for details, it was a lotta fun.)
I honestly don't recall when MotoBob entered my realm of awareness. Though I had seen Bob trailers around here and there, the first one I got a close look at was at Rodger's shop Blackwater Bikes in Davis, WV. It's a very nice product. Well thought out and well made. Sure, there is room for improvement, and a lot of Bob draggers make some nice modifications, but for the price, it's a finished, workable product without peer.
Anyway, To the best of my recollection, I was google ing about looking for some hard stats on carbon->oxidised via combustion to motive force output of EV relative to the modern internal combustion engine, and probably also looking at other stuff, and I think I just stumbled into the Thunder Stuck EV home page, where I found MotoBob. I'm pretty sure I thought it was just about the silliest thing I had ever seen. Probably hollared at my office mate and friend of many many years (who is still a bloody locomotive on a bicycle) "Hey, look at this silly c%$p here! Is that the dumbest idea you've ever seen?" Remembering an old saw that went the effect of:
"Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to shove them down peoples throats"
I was given to ponder the significance of MotoBob. I got out the maps. I studied. I learned that with the exception of a 300 yard dash down Georgetown Pike in the morning, and back up in the evening, (suicide for a fat, slowpoke) I could connect up Fairfax County Va bike trails with neighborhood streets and commute to work. Using MotoBob as a peddle assist, I could maybe arrive not stinking like a pig in the morning, or dead tired in the evening, I could avoid the horror of trying to compete with a ditzy-cell-jabbering freak in a Lexus 450 or Audi S8 by staying mostly out of harms way, use an external powersource on the bike paths, and maybe save my life by actually getting some real exercise for a change. Maybe it's just ridiculous enough to actually be a great idea! Fact, MotoBob is silly. Silly is fun. Fun is good. Motobob is therefore good.
That's enough digression.

I up and emailed Thunderstruck EV with some pointed questions, why this and why that, what about this, what about that, and eventually wasted enough of their time to feel that if I were to buy one of these silly Rube Goldberg-esque contraptions, I should send them a bonus. Then, good friend, whack-job, artist, visionary, musician, writer, and linux hacker Mike Taht confessed that he couldn't chat on the phone because he was on his way out the door to pick up his EV assist bicycle. Too much of a coincidence. I haven't even had the pleasure of Mike's company for over 6 years and aside from the very occasional phone chat, /usr/bin/talk session, and infrequent email (his fault) how could there be this convergence in crazy thought? Maybe because it's a good idea? Who knows. All I know is a few weeks later, he jabbered that the EV assist bike was the greatest thing since sliced bread and I was an idiot if it was within my abilities to have and use one, and not do that thang. Enough! I thought, I emailed Thunderstruck one last time for billing and shipping totals and the next day, express mailed a Money Order for $740 out the door. $700 for MotoBob and $40 for shipping UPS ground. Thunderstruck is up the Marin Highlands somewhere I think, on the wrong coast fer shere, but MotoBob was on my door step in a week.

With the trails around here covered in ice and snow, early morning temps in the teens, it arrived.

So, the story begins. I'll be fattening this up as time progresses, but here is the start.

MotoBobMetamorphosis
click on the pics for bigger pics

Bob BoxThis is what you get when you send money to Thunderstuck EV for MotoBob.
Shipping weight was somewhere in the 50 lb range. Shipped UPS ground, it only took a week for MotoBob to arrive.

Some assembly required. If you are a knothead with tools, routinely break pliers, and folks run when you pick up a screwdriver; Take this box directly to your local Bob retailer and pay them to assemble it.

Inside there are papers indicating that this whole shebang must be assembled by a bike dealer who is clueful. I have been working on bikes since 1984 was very much a futuristic concept and so far down the road that I wasn't concerned. I own hundreds of dollars of bike tools and don't trust bike dealers.
After digging out all the packaging, out comes the new MotoBob baby in a somewhat larval form.
New Born MotoBobA New Born MotoBob. If after staring at this weird lump of cool stuff you just bought confuses you at all. Take it to the bike shop now.

This page does NOT give you permission to build this thing up yourself. The directions say not to, and so does the author. No instructions here.
Detail 1Detail of what makes MotoBob not a Bob. But better.
The fancy 600 watt brushless motor. If you grab the shaft and turn it by hand, this thing will scare you. Keep yer credit cards away. I don't have a way to measure the gauss field of this thing, but the shaft "notchiness" is pretty pronounced.

My first impression was that the wiring et all was pretty much a kludge. However, on closer inspection, everything is laid out to do what needs to be done.

As shown, the motor mounts directly to a plate that is welded in place so that the primary cog alignment doesn't seem to have much or for that matter, any adjustability in drive pitch at all. This was initially a concern.
Here is MotoBob partially assembled, or assembled enough to roll out the door and get on with putting together my HPV/EV hybrid. (what nonsense, more like LFMB, or lazy fatman's bike).
Partial Assembly
Detail 2Now you can see the alignment of the drivetrain.
As noted above, I was concerned about the lack of adjustment on the motor mount. Stuff that I build tends to have a fair amount of adjustability in the design. Apparently, this is because I just can't handle good specs.

The chain drive lines up very nicely. With the drive side of the drivewheel up against the end of the dropout, there is what looks very much like exactly enough slack in the drivechain to avoid wear in the motor bushings, but tight enough to avoid a lot of chain slap. Seems pretty close to ideal.

The drive line alignment is dead-on. No adjustment needed.
This is just another detail to show you how this thing is built.

In this you can see how tight the whole drive train assembly comes together. ThunderStruck EV did a pretty good job jamming all of this in there.

Sure, there are things I initially thought I would change, and maybe I will. But when one sits down and does the math. Lesse, a new Bob trailer, that nifty motor, a pair of those B&B 22ah 12v batteries, a motor controller, some kinda throttle controller, spoking it all together to where it actually works,
well, Looks to me like $700 is the last nickel deal around if your time is worth anything at all.
Detail 3Another detail shot.
Full MotoBob1Getting closer now.
MotoBob nearly fully transformed into LFMB (hpv/ev hybrid). The HPV section is an old pre-Evolution Fischer CR-7. I've had it for years and years. Bought it second hand with over 2000 logged miles on it at the time. Lots more since. Good bike.

I used to commute from Crystal City, in Arlington Va to Wheaton Md on this thing back in the day. It's a great bike. Suntour drive train, DiaComp brakes, (stop like anchors) Japanese built hybrid frame, (steel rear triangle, big tube aluminum main triangle). Which makes it either priceless or worthless. I like it, I'll keep it.

I also have an Evolution era CR-7 that is my mountain bike. It has thousands and thousands of logged miles. I acquired it last summer.
Long view of MotoBobAnd here is a view stuck together in gimp to get an overall idea of how bloody long a MotoBob HPV/EV hybrid is. This monster is almost as long as my VW Rabbit!

The view out the window shows the snow and ice. So I haven't bothered finishing the assembly yet. Ya know, put on the fender, add the additional lighting, et al. Hopefully when I get back from Michigan in a couple of weeks. The snow and ice will be gone from the trails and I can give'er a go.

I'll be able to tell ya then what it's like to drive the LFMB.
So, in the mean time, book mark this page, and come back in check in a while, and I'll have some more info for ya.

Complaints, criticizms, commentary, controversy, conversation, and so on should be directed to me. Send email here.

So, that's all folks. At least for now.


UPDATE: Motobob Fail (not it's fault really


Because I referred to this page off my blog, it has gotten a few hits, and I've been emailed a few times by folks asking what was the final verdict on MotoBob.
Well, ultimately, for me, it failed.
The rig is really clumsy and awkward. A real hoot to ride certainly, but not quite as practical as I had initially imagined.

Riding MotoBob:

Not much different than riding with just good ole Bob. The weight of the batteries makes it a bit awkward compared to just an empty bob, but all Bob pilots will understand this. It's awkward until you get used to it. Not a big deal, but it does take some getting used to.
However, Bob under power is a different animal, Anyone who has been a Bob Dragger, with a heavy load understands that 'butterflies in your gut' feeling of having the trailer push you through a turn, that is not pleasant. Well, under power MotoBob feels like that all the time. Also, MotoBob uses the same hitch as Bob. The hitch is designed for positive weight on the hitch not negative weight. Every time the relative torque to the drive wheel passes null, the hitch 'bangs' on the hitch attachment quick release. When you power the motor up, the torque of the drive wheel 'lifts' the hitch, and it bangs the quick release, and when you let off the power, it bangs again. If you are trying to 'feather' the power, it bangs all the time. This isn't pleasant.
Those of you who have been studying this stuff understand that a fixed-gear electric drive system will have a pretty narrow sweet spot for useful power output relative to battery drain. For MotoBob, this was around 10-12 mph on the level with nominal wind. Those of you who have a good understanding of wind power will find that particular velocity familiar.

I'm editing this in Mac 'terminal' and it's really making me crazy. I am not a big OSX fan. vi isn't behaving, I just fumblefingered 45 hard edited lines out, and 'r' isn't replacing them.

Okay, where was I?
Right, trying to hit and maintain the sweet spot means feathering the throttle, feathering the throttle means the hitch rattles and bangs and really harshes on your cool. This may sound trivial, and to some maybe it is. To me, it's a fail. I spent some time digging through McMaster Carr and MSC looking for a delrin/nylon tophat washer that could be adapted as a bushing to reduce this effect. However, that too was a fail as wrestling with hitching up Bob by yourself is already something of a monkey dance by itself. Doing this dance with a loaded Bob, more so. Having to do this dance while fighting with bushings falls into the implausable category, meaning, redesigning the whole hitch. I wasn't up for that. Bob wasn't designed to be powered. Bob was designed to be Bob, and it works really well as designed.

Other riding concerns;
Backing Bob: If you know the way of Bob, you are probably okay with backing Bob, if you are one of those folks who can only back up a toilet, this will mean you will avoid all non-drive-through situations. Bob is a good Bob and will loyally go where led. Loaded, walking Bob around is clumsy and awkward. I don't think this is a criticizm so much as it is an awareness that Bob might not be the ideal grocery getter. Other trailer designs or load carrying approaches may be better for popping around to the store and zipping up and back from work.

So, in conclusion, MotoBob: Good Idea. Solid Implementation, good fabrication by Thunderstruck EV. Quality product. But, like folks who invent stuff know, sometimes that stuff doesn't add up to a finished product. MotoBob is a 'back to the drawing board' concept.

Thunderstruck took Motobob through at least 2 more incarnations before tossing in the towel. The next iteration went to a more powerfull hubmotor, and then the hubmotor powered MotoBob made it to the Bob Ibex, with a suspension system. Maybe the Ibex motobob allievated some of the principal concern issues I experienced, but it doesn't matter. MotoBob has been dropped from the their product line.

The good folks at Thunderstruck EV still stock stuff to build a motobob if you want to give it a go. Contact them.

The End

Epilogue

The small horse farm family sold and moved away. I conveyed with the property to the new owners and maintained it sans horses for another few seasons.
Eventually looking after my folks' property a few more miles further to the west took precedence in my life and I left my little cottage. I miss it still.
In idem flumen bis et non descendimus, Heraklitos? I don't remember, but it's certainly true enough. Where that once very peaceful spot was, now buried under a mountain of landscaped tract mansions, a little piece of my soul lies buried.
Can't go back.
Rest in peace old farm.